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Roger Boyd's avatar

"Both sides are odious" you immediately gave yourself away there. The actions of the armed wing of an occupied people against their occupiers and oppressors are not odious, they are entirely justified. Are you going to tell me that the armed wing of the Warsaw Ghetto were "odious". This is classic sophistry meant to hide the truth. Without Hamas the residents of Gaza are simply unarmed concentration camp residents, sheep ready for the Israeli slaughter and ethnic cleansing. Israel is a settler colonizing apartheid regime that wants to establish its own lebensraum based on the Zionist interpretations of the assertions of a religious text that is about as historically accurate as the Iliad.

The answer has always been simple, the UNSC takes the lands into its management by the necessary force and imposes the 1947 boundaries, which will involve the removal of all the illegal settlers. The school curricula will also have to be imposed, as with post-WW2 Germany to remove the teachings of religious supremacy and racist hatred.

Of course, this will not happen so Israel will continue on its course to eventual destruction as the power of the US and the West recedes. The Israelis are simply adding to the absolute hatred that will be rent upon them rather than seeking a true compromise (which they have never, ever tried). We are seeing the desperate thrashings of a declining Empire and its vassal.

The 1947 boundaries were imposed by a UN without the Soviet Union yet taking its chair at the UNSC and China represented by Taiwan. So these boundaries, which were highly slanted to benefit the Jewish population, were basically an imposition of the Western powers and lack any real legitimacy.

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The Phoenix's avatar

Aleks,

I am not going to make this a long comment. I might write a longer one later on (though I can’t promise because I don’t want to break my promise).

You’re too easy on Israel/Zionists and Jews. I’m not saying that the bulk of Jews and Israelis are to blame for all this. What I’m saying is they’re not just innocent bystanders that are being used by some hidden force like unwitting pawns.

I have studied both Jewish history and religion extensively, in addition to observations of modern Jews both in public and private. This is what I have to say.

The majority of Jews are brainwashed. In fact, person for person they are the most brainwashed people on earth. Since birth they are inculcated with two false axioms:

1) They are hated by everyone and everyone wants to kill them. Not because of their attitudes towards the nations they live among or their actions against those nations and/or its people. But because of their religion/ethnicity. Only because they’re jewish, and they’re blameless in all of it while the others are pure evil.

2) They are superior. They have a superior mind. They have a superior religion. They have a superior army. In fact, they are so superior that they represent a different kind of human that there are the Jews and then there are everyone else (goyim). I’m sure you’ve heard of the superiority of the “Jewish mind” or the purity of the “Jewish soul”. These statements are taken seriously. Some will say that’s strictly the Talmudic Jews (Orthodox and the like). Not true. Even secular Jews believe the same. They just don’t present it in religious terms.

These two points create a sense of supremacy and victimhood wherein

1) Any act they do that is demonstrably evil is accepted by them as justified,

2) The response to any perceived slight (real or imaginary) against them needs to be so great that the destruction of their adversary needs to be total regardless of how disproportionate the reaction is, and

3) They all need to stick together no matter how evil the act perpetrated is when the perpetrator is Jewish

Obviously that does not describe ALL Jews and there are some that have woken up from the brainwashing and speak out on the side of the truth (so called “self hating Jews”). However, you can see clearly from the reactions to the Gaza bombing and the plight of the Palestinians for the last 75 years that it applies to the majority.

So although, like you, I accept that a nation for the Jewish people has the right to exist, I do not - NOT FOR ONE SECOND - accept that they are innocent pawns in this great game. They are not only willing participants, they are also driving the train.

If you take that into account the calculus changes considerably.

I hope you do that.

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